Dell S2721NX 27 Inch Full HD (1920×1080) Monitor, 75Hz, IPS

Dell S2721NX 27 Inch Full HD (1920x1080) Monitor

Dell S2721NX 27 Inch Full HD (1920×1080) Monitor, 75Hz, IPS, 4ms, AMD FreeSync, Ultrathin Bezel, 2x HDMI, 3 Year Warranty, Black


Designed to fit one lifestyle

Beautiful look: Modern, elegant design with a subtle textured pattern at the back of the monitor has its own unique look. It brings the feeling of a harmonious blend of great style and quality into every living space.

Seamless switching: Built-in dual HDMI ports keep your devices always plugged in and let you effortlessly switch between streaming and console gaming.

Keep everything in order: Stay organized between applications, emails and windows on one screen using Dell Easy Arrange.

1. Security lock slot | 2. Power connector | 3. HDMI 1.4 ports | 4. Audio line-out port



Weight: 4.3 kg
Dimensions: 60.99 x 5.4 x 36.36 cm; 4.3 Kilograms
Brand: Dell
Model: S2721NX
Colour: Black
Manufacture: Dell
Dimensions: 60.99 x 5.4 x 36.36 cm; 4.3 Kilograms

38 Responses

  1. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom

    Golden Review Award: 2 From Our UsersGood quality, very easy to set up.
    Comes with very sturdy usb c cable so no need for separate charger for laptop as it charges whilst working.
    Delighted with purchase.

  2. DoraZiegler says:

     United Kingdom

    Great screen, built in speakers which is handy and stand is great, adjustable for angle and height. There was loads of choice in monitors but really glad I settled on this one, there is nothing I would change.

  3. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom

    Not the cheapest monitor on the market but it is certainly one of the best if not the best in its class. You get what you pay for in this world. I would recommend it to any prospective purchaser.

  4. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom

    Colour layout is good. Not perfect.
    Kinda washes out.
    Pluses: comes with VESA screws ready to go.
    Direct power built in (as is should)
    Audio is decent for a screen
    Cons: the audio isn’t controllable from hdmi ( c’mon, this isn’t hard to add to the main board code)

    4.0 out of 5 stars Does the job

  5. ImogenIqbal says:

     United Kingdom

    The monitor arrived swiftly and was presented to me at the doorstep, by the delivery firm employee.

    I carefully removed all the packaging and fitted the enclosed monitor stand. Then, I connected the provided cables to my Apple computer and a cable to the supplied power supply, and it is ready to use! The screen setup is easy to adjust colour, saturation, brightness etc.

  6. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom

    Golden Review Award: 2 From Our UsersI couldn’t easily see this in the product description, but the Monitor acts as a USB Hub. I connected a MacBook Air via USB-C, and both the built-in USB-A ports can connect peripherals such as a Keyboard or Mouse to the laptop (which only has USB-C). Excellent value as a monitor as saves buying a separate USB Hub/Adaptor.

  7. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom

    Lovely looking monitor with good features and half decent speakers.
    Good colour control. It’s my first curved monitor so I’m still getting used to the curve.
    I’d happily recommend this monitor.

    5.0 out of 5 stars Excellent replacement monito

  8. Amanda Walker says:

     United Kingdom

    Going to update this review further after a little more usage here is my first impressions after a weeks usage.

    The monitor has a decent IPS panel with good viewing angles, color and slim bezels. The connectivity is good if you have a lot of HDMI devices as this monitor comes with two ports compared to most that have one HDMI alongside another type of port. Also on the back is an audio out.

    I’ve tested out windows devices, Mac, Apple TV and raspberry pi, and all work pretty good! Clear images and text.

    The monitor does have speakers built in. However, this is the only negative I have with this monitor and I almost returned it for the way in which they are implemented. The sound quality is ok for a monitor and works well with computers such as macs and PC (windows) but I noticed a problem when connecting a console or Apple TV the sound output at 1 percent speaker level on the monitor is way too loud. And unfortunately there is no way to reduce further as you then go to 0 percent volume and it cuts out. They are practically unusable in this situation unless you are ok with a loud volume not ideal for bedroom or quiet area.

    The only way around this appears to be to use the audio out port to a set of external speakers hence 4 instead of 5 stars.

    I’m going to reach out to Dell to see if there is anything more to try or if an update can fix this.

    So, overall it’s a great monitor with decent image quality and connectivity, but let down by its speaker volume :/

  9. CarmenXqyozgjyx says:

     United Kingdom

    Working from home on a laptop can be hard on the eyes so I finally relented and decided to buy a big screen. Originally I ordered a Dell directly from the manufacturer but when it was discovered they had missed out important cables in the box I had terrible trouble trying to contact them and get it resolved. Eventually it was returned and I looked again. Despite vowing never to buy a Dell again after the poor experience, this one appeared to be the best for our needs (size, price etc) so ordered it hoping that it might be easier to sort out any issues with Amazon on our side. Fortunately all was Ok and no more squinting at a small screen for me!

  10. Greg Burgas says:

     United Kingdom

    Golden Review Award: 3 From Our UsersThis is my first 4k monitor and to be honest i am a bit underwhelmed. I have just retired my late 2013 21″ Imac and gone for a Macbook Pro and this Dell setup and I love it. The screen is clear, bright and I have just used it for Adobe Illustrator work and Photoshop and it fab. Why am I underwhelmed you ask well I thought i must Have 4k monitor so payed the xtra for the pleasure and while having 4k is a bonus don’t use it as a deal breaker, why? because when i put it into 4k i cant read the text its way too small and a hard to read. so I have put it into 1512×982 in my setting. Would i buy this again YES its a fantastic monitor and i cant wait to get to grips with the extra work area i have. Pivot is fab although i was expecting it too rotate the picture automatically but i will get to grips with the Hotkeys. cable management is not too bad but the USBc cable that came with the monitor is not flexible and put strain on both my Macbook and screen usb-c ports so i bought a better one. USB c is a must just one cable to charge and run my screen!! Ohh it looks good too so wont offend your eye. Shame it does not have a USB hub like the less models in the dell range but no big deal. I would have given it a 5 star if it was not for crap USB-C cable but its a solid 4.5 out of 5 easy.

    4.0 out of 5 stars Very Good But not quite a 5 sta

  11. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom

    Golden Review Award: 3 From Our UsersPicture quality is great. You’ll need to change the resolution. macOS will tell you that using a scaled resolution May reduce performance. Been using it for programming and compiling code haven’t noticed any extra stress on the machine.

    Definitely worth buying if you don’t want to spend 500+.

  12. TOM WILBER says:

     United Kingdom

    Purchased this monitor and I’ve used quite a few over the years. The colour quality and resolution are amazing. Build quality is perfect and the built in dock is a great feature

  13. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom

    The product suits me completely as a universal monitor for work, movies and games. The built-in speakers are quite quiet, so you can comfortably listen to them only while sitting near the monitor. Didn’t like DPD delivery. On the day of delivery, the driver wrote that he did not find me at home, although I was at home all day and attached a photo of another house. I didn’t like it very much. I also did not like that I could not report this to the DPD support service. I can understand when a person did not find the address and honestly said about it, but when he shifts his blame to me, and the support does not answer, it is very unpleasant. The next day, a polite courier delivered the goods on time.

  14. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    This screen contains so many features for such a low price point. It has a great specification. The colours are great, the size is perfect as a primary or secondary monitor for office work, which is my main use. It would function well as a gaming monitor.

    3 year dell warranty means a lot.

  15. CarlaSills says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Great resolution and kind on the eyes when working all day online

  16. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    I’m actuall yfed up with never getting the Xbox game pass Amazon offer with this order. About the sixth thing that inclludes one and they never send it. Anyone else? Screen is ok for a budget gaming screen but OLED is the way if you have the budget.

  17. Chris Thorman says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    The screen is fantastic and has been reviewed by mamy people, my review is more around that fantastic seller (ITCSales.co.uk).

    There was a fault with the screen and they replaced it within 48 hours with a new one under warranty, communication was really good and i will be buying kit from them in the future A+++

  18. BIKTahliagwg says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Firstly the speakers are amazing on this. The colours are sharp and I just can’t complain. I don’t like the stand, because you can’t raise the screen up which is the only drawback. But overall very happy with purchase. Thank you. Also guy who delivered it was great!

  19. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    This is a good quality 27″ monitor for home office and it has built in camera and USBC connection which works perfect for peripherals connection as well as power supply to my laptop. Didn’t test with the quality for gaming but don’t have too much expectation.

  20. EmeliaSipes says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Golden Review Award: 2 From Our UsersI am a web developer and I use the screens for coding. I upgraded and bought 2 x 34 inches . Having MacBook Pro M2 and no issues at all. The screens do the job and with 2 of them I can have loads of stuff open , perfect for home office. One wasn’t enough for my work and really happy with the setup.

  21. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Golden Review Award: 3 From Our UsersI needed a second monitor for working at home with a Windows Laptop and for my personal iMac Pro I use fog Photography and Video editing. I also wanted internal speakers so I could play moves from an iPad. The screen quality is excellent and works perfectly with everything I’ve plugged into it including a Raspberry Pi. The speakers could be better quality as this lets down the overall quality of this monitor. Ok for the occasional YouTube video but not good for watching movies.

  22. Marlys08Kqr says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Golden Review Award: 2 From Our UsersI purchased this for my home office and was debating between the apple screen and this screen. I read the reviews and of course the price swayed me a little. Once received I absolutely love it. It is the perfect size, the picture quality is amazing and I even play my DVD’s on it. It is amazing for the price point and works better than I had anticipated.
    I would recommend this product.

  23. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    I can hear the sound only from my laptop.
    Also the USB C cable doesn’t work with a Macbook Pro 2022; I had to use HDMI cable which is disappointing because Macbooks these days have very few ports, so I’m using a bulky adaptor.

  24. fatgus says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Golden Review Award: 2 From Our UsersI was using Dell similar series for last 2 year. A fantastic piece of display for long time working. I was using external speaker with that. But after getting this life is much easier and my tabe is more clear and clean. So far I will give 4.8/5 . A good monitor for home use.

  25. kevin knezevic says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Golden Review Award: 7 From Our UsersI like the monitor so far, it connects well with my MacBook and the extra connections mean that I have fewer cables cluttering up my workspace as I can connect it to my MacBook via the USB-C connector and use older Windows USB-A cables for older peripherals using the monitor’s two USB-A connections. The inbuilt speakers are a bit tinny and not good enough for music but that was expected. I bought it for the screen, not the speakers and they’re ok for Zoom calls.
    My main annoyance is that this monitor was sold with a 3 year warranty from Dell, which when I checked on the Dell website to register my product it said it had already begun last year (2022) and runs out in 2025, only giving me a 2 year warranty, as I only bought it in February 2023. I contacted Dell support to ask for an extension to make it 3 years, as per the sales agreement on Amazon but had a pretty poor reply stating the end of the warranty will still be 2025.
    I hope I don’t need to claim anything under the warranty period but if the monitor is sold as having a 3 year warranty, it really needs to be the 3 years or you are mis-representing the warranty. If the seller here on Amazon has any information on how to speak to Dell to get this warranty date corrected to be 3 years from my date of purchase please let me know.

  26. FabianThalberg says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    It is not the best monitor out there, but it is certainly the one with most value for money. If you want a 4K monitor that works just fine, but there is no extra bells and whistles, this is the monitor for you.

  27. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Golden Review Award: 4 From Our UsersJump from HD to UHD 4K is amazing. Clarity as mentioned is great and watching films is so much clearer. Was dubious about buying a curved screen but after using it for work and for leisure, it was a good choice. Would recommend this product.

  28. SaundraTorreggi says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Golden Review Award: 5 From Our UsersI bought this monitor (Dell S3221QS 31.5 Inch 4K UHD (3840×2160) about three weeks ago. After connecting to my PC (Graphic card is a RTX 2080 Ti) which is running Windows 11, I was immediately impressed with the sharpness of images displayed, quite a big step-up from the 21″ Monitor I’ve been used to.

    At this point it became quite noticable that my monitor suffers from a ‘Red Shift’ problem, where-by dark images that move on-screen have this red ghosting effect to them that is at times, quite noticable once you are aware of this problem. Even when scrolling in the browser this Red-Shift in colour can show up especially in dark themed forums. I have tried different 4K HDMI cables, even tried using the different Monitor settings (such as Video & Game HDR modes etc) . I have even tried using my graphic card’s Display Port to HDMI and this problem still persists.

    At this point I have tried everything I know and decided to return the Monitor back to the seller. However, after checking out other 4K monitors on Amazon I was quite surprised to come to the conclusion that there were NO other Monitors that stood out from the rest when comparing like-for-like, price-for-price with the Dell S3221QS!.

    With this mind I went and cancelled my Return to Seller order. Of course I could just re-order this same monitor from the seller and hope that it will work as expected, but the delivery for a new monitor could take between February, early March!.

    Putting aside the Red-Shift problem I am happy with the general build for this monitor, the base is solid and sturdy, the Monitor’s menu system, while a little fiddly to access, is easy to navigate through it. Connecting the HDMI to the Monitor is a bit of a pain as it required me to lay the Monitor on it’s back in order to see where the HDMI cable is inserted, but once done, it’s not something I would have to re-do anytime soon.

    Using Windows 11 built-in HDR mode does enhance the picture quality considerably, this is my default setting for all my games and videos.

    I’ve given this Monitor a overall rating of 4 Stars out of 5.

  29. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Delivered ahead of schedule – and not damaged – a good start. Easy to assemble and use – great little operating buttons along the bottom of the right side. Incredible price as I found them on sale – of course on Amazo

  30. MilanGilles says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Golden Review Award: 2 From Our UsersImage quality is as good as your display card is capable of delivering. The menu is driven by five physical buttons rather than a joystick, but it certainly isn’t a deal breaker. I don’t find the need to constantly adjust the levels anyway. The built-in speaker is adequate only if you’re listening to the news, but you probably are ready to add your own external-speakers anyway.

    If I must, I’d say I wish there is a USB-C port.

  31. JulissaHacker says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Golden Review Award: 19 From Our UsersI’m a software developer and needed some more screen real estate (I had a Dell U2515H – 25″ 2k). I spent loads of time looking at specifications, reviews, prices etc. This was one of the first monitors I checked out and I was put off by one review saying if you’re a coder, the edges lose their definition / light / focus. I also use a Macbook Pro 16 which needs 96W and the monitors that support this either cost a lot more, or had bad reviews.

    After a few days using this I have to say, I love it. The colours are great out of the box, very clear on the whole screen, no dead pixels, bright and no ghosting. I think the colours could be a little better but I’m happy with them as they are. If I had the desk space I’d definitely buy another.

    While it’s not USB-C, the hub is a useful aspect, I have a Pluggable TB3 dock so it wasn’t essential. I couldn’t get Displayport working and I’m not sure if this is the dock or the monitor, but it doesn’t matter, HDMI is working fine at 4K 60Hz.

    I was really dubious about buying a curved screen, but I have to say that after a couple of hours, it’s a God send for me. I wear varifocal glasses for screen work and it’s very clear all over without moving my head. I find the text a little too small when working at maximum resolution but bearable and when on RDP I can adjust it anyway, specifically for those sessions.

    All in all, I’m very happy with my choice, would buy another and unless you’re a serious gamer or need other capabilities (like USB-C) I’d highly recommend this.

  32. Azucena93V says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Great monitor for videoconferencing – the camera is an upgrade from the laptop and it’s conveniently built in. Being able to charge your laptop is a big plus and helps w cable management.

  33. Ian Aikman says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Golden Review Award: 4 From Our UsersExcellent monitor, very bright and over saturated colours out of the box, my settings are: contrast 75, brightness 33 and RGB 90-90- 90

  34. Shantel6833 says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Great monitor and using with Mac Pro M1. Camera is ok with good light but grainy with low ligh

  35. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    This is a great screen. Initially I didn’t like the screen curve but I quickly got used to it. I thought it would be too big as I was previously using a 24 inch monitor but actually I’d now like an even bigger monitor! There is some bleed around the edges which you can notice when you have a dark screen but it has not been a problem for me. The speakers are adequate for watching youtube etc. A minor gripe is that the screen cannot be raised high enough for my needs so you may find that a stand is required. I had one major issue with Linux. When the machine is woken from sleep, the monitor does not wake. I tested this on Ubuntu and one of the other major distributions (I forget which). Dell Support were not helpful in resolving this matter which I suppose is to not surprising. I’ve not checked the very latest version of Ubuntu so it is possible that this issue has been resolved. In summary, 5 stars on Windows but I’m docking 1 star for the lack of Linux support.

  36. Anonymous says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Golden Review Award: 15 From Our UsersI paid 361 in July 2022.

    Amazon misdelivered the first one, it took numerous IR Chats for them to admit it was delivered to the wrong address and arrange a free replacement; I ACTUALLY GOT MINE on 12th July 2022.

    Lighter but smaller than my 43 inch TV, this was harder to manoeuvre.

    Box opens flat only.
    Box is 37 x 21 x 7 inches.
    VERY well packed, mostly cardboard but with polystyrene frame for screen.
    No need for send in amazon packaging unless it is a present.

    Setup was easy – you can stand it at edge of table to attach riser, it just clicks in, then lay ON the riser, screen up to attach VERY heavy base – neat little bolt with fold down turner, no screwdriver required.
    Unless you want a monitor arm or to put in on a trolley, just use the stand supplied.
    Good luck holding it to do that!

    You will need to download software from the Dell site; see note at end regarding which.

    I am running via a Display Port cable to an HX90 Mini PC, keyboard & trackball connected, uplink USB to PC, not tried HDMI yet – keep meaning to.

    Buttons as a wee bit fiddly – just under the right hand side of the screen, typically not central so stuff lefties.

    My first curved screen – I see why they make them and people love them.

    I chose this monitor over a 27″ HD one because of higher review ratings, especially TechRadar.

    I wanted a computer over tablet for email, snail mail etc so did not look for gaming options.

    It displays documents perfectly and actual size so fabulous.

    I am photo sensitive and between computer and monitor it is set up to MY comfort; easily done too.
    Particularly the anti blue light settings.
    It really is non glare – no staring at yourself or lights across room.
    So far no headaches or worse migraines from it – so spectacularly good.

    I am a meany with 5 stars, minus half because it was such a PITA to move, open and get onto table.
    You need a strong table by the way.

    I have answered a query about wobble – it is a little bit wobbly, but stable.

    Updates (via the USB link cable) have worked fine, BUT do not update to screen monitor V2 -it does NOT work with THIS monitor!

    ONLY major niggle is the power socket. Not often, but if it gets knocked it disconnects.

  37. Alex Nishimoto says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Golden Review Award: 9 From Our UsersYou get a lot more than you pay for with this monitor. Large screen, lots of pixels, good colours, sharpness and brightness, nice curve, attractive design and a reasonable stand (although a bit low for my liking, so I elected to mount it on a gas spring arm). The sound is nothing to write home about, so don’t expect to watch blockbusters without headphones.

    I say “good colours” – not perfect, but hey, you’re not paying for a 5,000 Apple 32″ Pro display, so you won’t get one. I am actually using it for professional photo editing, and it’s plenty good enough provided you tinker with it a bit.

    In my experience, setting the colours on the “Custom Color” menu gets more accurate results than using any of the presets, including sRGB. Using colour grading tools available online, I have achieved a near-perfect greyscale. The contrast setting affects a colour cast in the highlights that varies from blue to yellow, but a neutral position can be found.

    The viewing angle is not huge before colours are affected to an extent, but the curve helps here. All in all a lot of monitor for the money.

    Some have complained of a whining sound from the speakers. I have had that, but it goes away with a “Reset Audio” on the monitor’s menu.

    UPDATE: the annoying whining from the speakers kept coming back and I got tired of having to reset the audio several times a day, so I have ordered a USB speaker bar. Still love the screen, though.

    Fantastic monitor for its price

  38. Mike Gikas and Patrick Austin says:

     United Kingdom 🇬🇧

    Golden Review Award: 164 From Our UsersAs a software developer, I wanted a 32″ 4K monitor that would be good in dark rooms, so this monitor ticked many boxes.
    You can find many reviews around about its pros and cons so I’ll just keep it brief [narrator: “he didn’t”]

    1) Out of the box, with the “Standard” settings, the colours are terrible. Fiddling with the settings a bit improved the situation (namely, increase contrast, and brightness, and change the colour settings to “colour space”.

    2) High pitch speaker noise is not too loud, but it’s there, however! It disappears if you either set the volume to 0 (on the monitors’ settings), or if you are playing any sound (that is, you could have a 24/7 audio file playing with no sound to keep the audio peripheral busy, and the high pitch noise should disappear). If you are used to listening to music while working this won’t be an issue at all.
    I like how the speakers sound (not exceptional, but still richer than laptop speakers) so it would be a shame to disable sound completely.
    UPDATE [JUNE-2022] The latest firmware update M2C103 seem to have fixed this really annoying issue!! I only tried for an hour but it seems that this issue is now solved (as per change notes). Updating review score from 4* to 5* (in light of the backlight flickering issue that seems to be resolved, too).

    3) Backlight flickering. This is an odd one, it’s hard to reproduce (I’ve tried different cables and slightly different refresh frequencies (around the 60Hz) but there is, sometimes, a backlight flickering noticeable on a white background. It doesn’t appear too often (maybe once a day) and turning the monitor off and on fixes it for the time being, but is rather weird.
    UPDATE [JUNE-2022] I’m being cautious but it seems that this issue (that occurred on firmware M2C101) seems not to be present anymore (or greatly reduced)

    4) PIP/PBP is quite good I think. The PBP effectively splits the display into 2 halves and you have full control of what input goes left and right, and the computers (Windows 10) immediately detect a 1920×2160 resolution (that is exactly the vertical half of 3840×2160) monitor, so there is no stretching or other visual artefacts.
    I’ve tried the PIP from two sources (DP and HDMI) and with the inputs set in the same way there was absolutely no difference in color and luminosity between the two (which makes it nice if you want a borderless multimonitor setup).
    The PIP is also quite nice, you can choose to put the secondary input on the 4 corners, and change the size to be either fairly small or to occupy exactly one of the 4 monitor quadrants, in which case you could effectively have a 1080p monitor embedded in one of the corners (so there is no weird pixel scaling).

    5) For the love of anything you hold dear, do NOT set the pixel response time to anything other than Normal. Fast and Fastest would cause black/grey smearing of the likes you will want to throw this monitor out of the window. Just forget this setting exist, the “normal” blur is not awful as you may expect.

    I compared an LG27GN850 (IPS) side by side with this one and after fiddling with many settings I had to say that while colourful videos don’t look as good as with IPS, any dark video (i.e. LG OLED 4K demo video) would look great.
    Games like Dark Souls and Bloodborne look much much better on this monitor (compared to the above-mentioned IPS).
    But if you play Overwatch, then this monitor won’t be your first choice.

    All things considered, it’s hard to find something with similar characteristics at the same price, especially considered the 3-year premium panel exchange warranty (1 bright pixel within 3 years = monitor replacement), and this worldwide shortage of everything electronics.

    I use this monitor on a 60cm deep desk and my face is about 50-60cm far from it, which is ideal and I don’t use any Windows DPI scaling. It’s nice that it doesn’t take too much desk space.

    >90% software development, <10% gaming.

    I would think long and hard if you wanted mainly a gaming monitor and go for something with a 120Hz+ refresh rate.

    [UPDATE AFTER 1+ YEAR OF USE] I love it and since the latest firmware update the two most annoying issues seem to have been resolved, so if you are in the market for a mid-range 32"-4k productivity monitor this may be the "chosen one" (remember to play with picture settings a bit as out of the box colours aren't great)